Grapevine

http://www.grapevinelarp.com/oldnews.shtml

Here's the link to the character utility tool I was talking with Jason about a while back. There would be a decent amount of data entry to get this up and running between the amount of pc's and npc's that would need to be entered maintenance/upkeep of the character sheets is point and click simple. The utility will also handle distributing ep, general notes and I believe it go's as far as distributing specific levels of rumors appropriately but I'm not positive on that one.

Take a look and worst case if you decide you don't like it no need to use it.

I've downloaded it. Will install and play with it for a few days and then i'll make a decision.

Well there are a few probs with it but not big ones. It includes Merits and Flaws from EVERYTHING in WoD. Including prior editions so some broken Merits and or Flaws may be in it. It's also got some of the older stats for weapons, such as the broken long bow of uberness with it's +6 traits or saying a Greatsword has like +4 Traits and does 3 lethal or something nasty like that. But it's still a decent utility.

Keep in mind on the long bow, it's as tall as a man for the most part, lesser one's give lesser traits. Not to mention it's got 3 or for neg traits that if you can remember them to bid against the user chop it down substantially trait wise.

As for grapevine I don't believe it has any items listed in it, have to be handkeyed in if your maintaining items on a character sheet. It does have any trait, merit derangement used in any larp book around, including combo disciplines.

It's a broken design for Longbow Traits and it was definitely fixed in other books. +6 Traits is just stupid. A Longbow is better than a gun? Yeah right. If you look at the Longbow in Faith and Fire, which is Vampire Dark Ages, it's only 3 Traits.

Six traits for a longbow is ridiculous, I have to agree. Three sounds about right. I mean, longbows changed the face of war back in the day, but that's because they didn't have guns yet. If they were better, we'd still be using them on the battlefield.

ETA: The stats on the longbow in tabletop were also ridiculous, if I remember right. I once played a changeling who had a dolorous blow/longbow combo attack that could take people out in one hit. I made the entire character because I realized how broken the longbow was. That character also wielded a mace, another broken weapon.

Maybe if they were like Rambo's Bow we'd still use them. With the explosive arrows? :-p
He was obviously using the OP bow version.

People didn't stop using the bow because it was inaccurate or difficult to wield. They stopped using the bow because firearms packed soo much more stopping power and from a much greater distance. I personally have gotten to play with bow's and a series of firearms and there isn't a noticeable difference in accuracy from within the effective range for either, though mechanic's for using a bow in my opinion are more conductive to short range accuracy (releasing vs pulling) but so minor it's almost impossible to measure when you know what your doing.

As for the game I'm not going to nitpick whitewolf's gaming mechanic's as if I were to compare everything in it for realism to the RL equivilant I wouldn't be satisfied with most any of the weapon mechanics. The bow probably should have about the same bonus and neg traits as any other gun and do about the same damage as a basic dagger. As for the bow in this game to me however the ST's want to handle it is fine with me. I'm not going to gear up based off stat's as to me what fits the character's style is much more important to me and this character isn't big on ranged weapons unless there's no other option.

I had no idea bows were such a hot item.... I'm not used to having players abusing my games by meta-gaming the rules. It may be OP, but I'm just that kind of jerk story teller that will give them an incredible hassle....

Where'd ya buy it. Where do you store it, how do you plan to conceal that?

You didn't tell me you went all the way back to your car to get that bow.....

Ooops you brought a bow to a fight against a tremere....those things are flammable you nub....

Oops it's raining out...you don't want that bow string to get wet!!

Hey bow strings break every so often. So every 5 shots give me a test...

Hehe now let's talk about the time it takes you to re-string a bow...

So how many arrows are you carrying? Where ya store them....(Rinse and repeat the above for arrows)

Do you see how i can punish them with mundane, yet realistic concerns? I can make a meta-gamer beg for mercy, and give them a real life derangement....Rotscheck when spotting a bow.

Remember folks...It's fragile...its got a freaking string. It's only real effective function is staking at range. Instead of fearing the bow, try focusing on it's weaknesses, and ways you can exploit any fool who brings one to a fight. Spend enough time teaching enough people ways to disable the threat, and it no longer will be a threat.

Not to mention peer pressure. What sort of cowardly shmuck takes out an opponent using a bow? It's about the most hollow victory anyone can acheive.

There you have it. The story teller rant. It's completely un-edited...completely spontaneous, and completely random in thought process.

Now all of you gimme a test. I have just unleashed voice of madness. Any player reading this must post their throw..

I throw Paper...with 12 Traits.

GO!

Besides, a real man/woman doesn't need a +6 trait bow and would realize it's broken, especially when the Dark Ages book, the book for when people would commonly use a bow, says it's +3 Traits. :-p (The +3 version also has armor piercing, which is far more accurate because the +6 Trait Longbow does NOT have this. So you'd hit the guy in plate mail but not punch through it? The whole point of the longbow was it defeated armor easily.)

But what about a modern day Compound Bow? It's made of metal of some kind, a lot less fragile than wood, not flammable and the "string" isn't made of string, it's some kind of thin bungie cord looking material from what I remember.

On another note, just out of curiosity, did they ever do a Grapevine like app for NWoD?

Actually the crossbow was the one created to defeat armor easily as it shot with more energy resulting in a greater force of impact. The long bow was just longer range then the short bow.

As for the newer compound bows for in game mechanics the core rules laws of the night leave it up to ST discretion saying it is a lower trait item. Also they aren't metal, it's a graphite composite with some plastics and some wood laminate and, while a stronger cord is being used, there is still a string involved. Then there's the fact all the newer arrows aren't wood, they are also a graphite composite/plastic mixture to make the geometry on them more controllable in mass production. There are checks and balances in the system such as on top of what Jason has already mentioned unlike firearms you have to take the time to load, draw and aim the bow resulting in a limited rate of fire if so deemed by the ST's.

Indeed. Also, I'd like to add that no one is running around using a bow at the moment. So no need to stress about the issue until that occurs. Since we have all made ourselves pretty clear on the topic I doubt we'll see one in game unless we start getting more players. Which reminds me.. Time for a new post.

As far as ranged combat goes wouldn't the crossbow be a better bet at least in modern terms for resilency and consealability for ghouls? It would help level some of the playing field especially in defense.

FYI...GrapeVine is awesome...though it's going to take a lot of work to get it up and running.

Love the item cards being already done though. Still playing with it...haven't started filling in much data, but seriously considering getting into this full time until it's running and then using the hell out of it. Thanks for the info Ryan.

Problem is the item cards are what the book says they are AND it includes all the books, thus you would have the +6 Trait Longbow and the +3 Trait Bow and all other kinds of versions of items, so it leaves it up to the ST to know which weapons are from which editions and all. If you make custom changes you'd have to do that yourself.