Ooooh Snap!

Any BSD gfits that could have fucked us up? I can look through the books and all and see what there is. I know some of the other various changing breeds can be pretty nasty vs vamps.

It wasn't a matter of the gifts these one's possessed not being nasty vs vamps. It's more that we blew through them fast enough they didn't get a chance to mix and match gifts into there fighting too much.

It's actually an intermediate level theurge gift. Brennan learned it pretty early on in Second Progeny. And the gift allowed you to lead others into the Umbra, and I used that trick to my advantage many times.

I did consider using it. I was going to drop the gauntlet rating low enough around the corrupted caern to allow someone to walk back through and out of the Spirit Realm. However...that presented problems concerning the corrupting spirit. I was worried a player faced with being dragged into the Umbra, and then losing control of their character to the spirit when attempting to cross the gauntlet...only to be forced to act as a last defense...might be too much. I didn't want anyone to feel picked on by the ST.

I award extra experience to players in my game who get the shaft this way. (If they survive. Mwahaha.) It lessens my guilt for picking on them.

There's stories of even Garou going too deep into the umbra and loosing there way back only to be absorbed, for lack of a better description, by the Umbra. The werewolf realm has tons of unique story options but most werewolf only games seem to eventually turn into senseless violence just for the sake of violence.

listen all the ST was also making bad throughs and i mass combat he has to make his throughs.......... i have seen in other games that if the ST is making bad throughs the ST would call for someone else to through (someone who was doing nothing) and evn just that could chang the game.... I think you all know we got LUCKY......

I wouldn't say senseless violence in Werewolf. It has sense most of the time, its just that they resort to it pretty much all the time for most threats instead of using influence, diplomacy or being sneaky, like say sabotage instead of killing anyone. Vampires seem to think of these things a bit more often.

The werewolf realm as a whole lends itself to being every bit if not more social then a vampire game. Getting some things done is alot easier as werewolfs aren't limited by the same factors a vampire is, a werewolf can eat lunch with a potential contact for example. Most players are the one's that resort to and bring the senseless violence to the werewolf realm as being able to throw that many traits often seems to become a players use of tact. Not a universal rule of course but where I've managed to get out of the majority of vampire nights without having to throw chops werewolf I typically wasn't so lucky unless it was a moot or strategy session, and the game I played in a couple years was more of a thinking mans werewolf game. The ST just happened to suicide the game after running a handful of the players off towards the end.

But most werewolves have so much rage that a potential contact is going to be too scared around them to eat. Ragabashes are okay at this, and some Theurges, but beyond that, you're moving into a range where normal human willpower is too low.

That's only if you don't even out your Willpower with your Rage. If you do that your fine. Stands had 5 Rage 5 Willpower and possibly Calm Heart? So he was totally in control of his rage and normal people would not feel uncomfortable around him.

That's an issue for Vampires too though. If your Humanity is too low people DO notice. I think it's 3 or less you start to show signs of it, including just your "aura" or feeling you give off, so mask doesn't help. If your not on Humanity at all it definitely makes having contacts hard to do. Though I suppose you could be the mysterious "Mr X" who never sees anyone in person and always calls. I'd suspect over the phone you'd still be creepy, but that does sound pretty damn cool and very WoD to me.

The lack of humanity can make developing contacts and influences more interesting but I wouldn't go so far as to say a great deal more difficult. Certain influences, like Church or High Society, you may have to find some sort of go between to help make all the arrangements. Bottom line some people are drawn to power regardless of how creepy of a form it resides in and in the WoD Vampires are a pretty powerful entity to attach yourself to.

And of course the same go's in regards to werewolfs with there rage. There are some influences/contacts that it may help being super intimidating.

Yeah, like Street and Underworld. Maybe even in some other things you wouldn't think of. You want to tell the super scary guy it's all caught up in "red tape?" :-p

Scott, what I'm talking about is the fact that humans tend to be uncomfortable around werewolves whose rage is greater than their willpower. And yes, you could keep your rage down the same way that a vampire might try to keep their humanity up, but a low rage restricts how much rage you can spend per round, which can make fighting difficult.

And you could still buy that and your willpower up and your fine. Stands at Attention is an Ahroun and had 5 Rage but I also bought up his Willpower right at character creation. His Rage was just fine and in balance with his Willpower. It's a balancing act. Just make sure your rage doesn't exceed your Willpower and your good to go. Even as a Ragabash I didn't have many problems with Rage, though once again, I bought a bit more at start. Ahmose, my Silent Strider, started with like 3 Rage I think?